All Conversations in My Heart
Friday, September 25, 2009
  What are we if not conceived Immaculate

I ask all for your indulgence and understanding. I have been reading as much as I can on the Church teachings on our birth and find very little. In fact it is a road down which the Church has never travelled, even in the commentaries on the Wisdom Books, which tell us there is only one way for man to enter the world and only one way out. Perhaps this a blog may reach some recondite theologian and inspire him to refute it and prove me wrong. I truly believe and it could be text proofing to say, that things of God hidden in the darkness of our minds often and eventually come into the light. I pray that I never lead anyone astray with the wanderings of my mind. May I then follow up and write about some more thoughts on our immaculate conception that is the sinless thoughts of God as He thought of us? Although we think eternity is not time, it is of course time but it is God’s time which has no start and no end and somewhere in this infinite moment which again is wrong as His moments are so short as to be a temporal meaningless for us as they are so fast. Nevertheless, in that moment of eternity God thought of a perfect creature with all the attributes that would captivate Him. Stealing Augustine’s phrase of original sin let us call this momentary thought of God which will last into Eternity, original conception. Can I claim only a fool would say there was no first sin in our temporal world, or do we claim there was no first sin as sin existed from the moment the world was conceived, designed and created in God’s mind? Some must do as there are religions who either, deny sin exists, or impute in ignorance, Adam was born with concupiscence already overcoming his conscience in fact from this we can make a case there could be no moral law to counteract our behavior. That is to say, we cannot see bad from good and anything goes that makes us feel good in ourselves even at the expense of the well-being of others. This has led to the prosperity theology of strange theologians. Of course you must consider for yourselves if these words are the "privatae opiniunculae" mentioned in last chapter of Vincent of Lerins'

Commitorium where he defined the common, universal mind of the church.

I quote from AlterNet an opinion on this belief


Health and Wealth

Genealogy is important. Therefore, in order to help you distinguish one movement from another, let me give you a brief primer on Pentecostalism and its two mutations: Prosperity Gospel and the New Apostolic movement.

The Pentecostal movement has been defined by historical, theological, and sociological means, but to understand its “mutations,” focusing on the movement’s practices is key. The Pentecostal emphasis on the gifts of the Holy Spirit, which can also function as a religious practice, are outlined in various New Testament texts (including I Corinthians 12-8-10, I Corinthians 12:28, and Romans 12:3-8). These gifts, or practices, include healing, exorcism, speaking, and interpretation of tongues, words of wisdom, and prophetic utterances. Speaking in tongues or glossolialia, once touted as the primary practice of Pentecostals is now, despite the occasional outburst of televangelists, something very few Pentecostals engage in according to a 2006 Pew survey. Instead, practices of healing, faith, and exorcism have gained primacy among the “spiritual gifts.” As a result, the long-term health and strength of Prosperity Gospel and the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) rests on the elevation and promotion of these practices above all others. The deviations, then, are just as important in understanding how Pentecostalism is being reshaped and redefined.

The Prosperity Gospel has had several names throughout its history, including the “Health and Wealth Gospel” and, as noted above, “Word of Faith,” whose antecedents arise out of the healing movements of the 19th. century. Early Pentecostals laid hands on and prayed fervently for healing “in the name of Jesus”; teachings that were appropriated by many churches and evangelists. For some, however, the teachings of E. W. Kenyon on the Word of Faith (with an emphasis on “faith”) became more primary in ministries and churches. Emphasis on the power of faith asserted that Christ’s atonement for sins on the cross included healing, and that if faith were applied appropriately, whatever a believer prayed for that was in God’s will would occur.

In the late 1940s, Kenneth Hagin (sometimes known as the father of the Word of Faith Movement or just ("Daddy Hagin”) focused on principles of ”faith” and the right of believers to be healed. Using his own story of healing, Hagin, alongside evangelists like Oral Roberts, A. A. Allen, and others, began to promote healing teachings, adding financial blessings and a how-to on the proper application of “The Word of Faith.” [See Jonathan Walton’s watch this! The Ethics and Aesthetics of Black Televangelism and RD’s “Selling the Good News.”]

For these Word of Faith proponents, the emphasis was placed on an almost fanatical belief in speaking and living the Word of Faith in line with scripture. These teachings in turn became foundational for many in the movement, including Hagin protégées Kenneth Copeland, Frederick K. C. Price, and John Osteen. Many mainline Pentecostals embraced these teachings at Copeland and Hagin meetings, which also attracted Charismatics from mainline denominations. Now known as the Prosperity Gospel, these movements garnered more participants and visibility in the 1990s; not only due to the advent of larger non-denominational churches linked to the various ministries, but also to the explosion of full gospel churches led by leaders like Paul Morton (who linked to other leaders with Pentecostal backgrounds like T. D. Jakes).


Something I might add to the pot is also the new term, “Natural man” which I have found appearing in the Catholic Pentecostals. Apart from Paul use of the word natural it is a bad translation, I might add a translation of the Greek word "physicos", which is closer to psychic in understanding. The natural man does not acknowledge government, does not pay taxes and other odd behaviors.

Returning to my original thoughts, all this happened after God’s conception of the perfect soul, which owing to the providential acts of God; this soul was held as it were for a later occasion. Then God in His wisdom sent a soul into man during the sixth day of creation, the sixth night of those dreams or visions, given to who ever wrote the Book of Genesis. Surely, you are not going to deny this and say it was all written by an eyewitness to creation; someone in your view sat of a rock and watched as the rocks were created. Perhaps you might also say by some alien scientist who watched from a spacecraft and left his notes for us to discover.

Returning from my digression to my thoughts which is what they are, mine alone. God’s original conception, original idea, His created wisdom came to live with us when His will deemed it necessary to complete His plan of redemption. After this first thought we came in our own time, which is His time, to live in this world with the tools to follow God as He wishes, that is created wisdom, through Christ and with Christ we can claw our way back to perfection, the perfection of our original immaculate conception, the very thought of God.

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